Tucker Carlson
Tucker Carlson6d ago
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The Truth About the Biggest Act of Domestic Terrorism in American History

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TL;DR

Kathy Wilburn lost two grandsons in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing and spent 32 years investigating evidence suggesting Timothy McVey didn't act alone — including an ATF informant's warnings, multiple witnesses placing McVey with a second man, and suspicious government actions before the blast.

Key Insights

1

ATF warned two months priorAn ATF informant living at Elohim City warned her handler in December 1994 that three individuals had taken trips to Oklahoma City and Tulsa to scout buildings for bombing — two months before the attack occurred.

2

20+ witnesses never calledOver 20 witnesses gave FBI statements placing Timothy McVey downtown the morning of the bombing in the presence of a second man, yet prosecutors never called any of them to testify at trial.

3

Never interviewed in personMcVey called a man named Andreas Strawmeer at Elohim City just two minutes after calling the Ryder truck rental company, but the FBI never interviewed Strawmeer in person — only a phone call after he'd left the country.

4

Advance terror alertFire dispatch records show Oklahoma City fire department received a memorandum one week before the bombing to be on high alert for terrorist activity, as did the federal courthouse — no public warning was issued.

5

Investigator put on leaveAn FBI agent who investigated the bombing told Wilburn after 10 years he'd been put on paid leave and kept out of the case — suggesting possible obstruction or compartmentalization of the investigation.

6

Light sentence and protectionMichael Fortier, who witnessed McVey demonstrate the bomb plan using Campbell soup cans, received a 10 years prison sentence despite being 'every bit as guilty' as co-conspirator Terry Nichols, and now lives in witness protection.

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Deep Dive

The Personal Tragedy and First Signs of a Cover-Up

On April 19, 1995, Kathy Wilburn's two young grandsons, Chase and Colton, were killed when a bomb destroyed the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, devastating 168 people total. In the immediate aftermath, as her family searched for the children at the hospital, Wilburn's initial acceptance of the official narrative — that Timothy McVey and Terry Nichols acted alone — began to crumble. Within weeks, a mother of one of the daycare victims mentioned she'd seen bomb squad vehicles at the Murrah building before the explosion. When Wilburn's husband went to the fire station to verify, the fire chief denied it, but the dispatcher pulled him aside privately and said something had to give: 'I'm not going to lie for anyone. We got a memorandum in this office last week to be on high alert for terrorist activity.' This wasn't public knowledge. The federal courthouse had received the same alert. If the government knew a bombing was coming, how could McVey have acted as a random lone wolf?

The John Doe Two Mystery and Witness Testimony

The FBI initially launched the largest manhunt in American history for 'John Doe Number Two,' McVey's alleged accomplice, offering a $2 million reward after witnesses at the Ryder truck rental said two men rented the vehicle. Within weeks, the FBI abruptly closed that investigation, claiming it was a mistake. But Wilburn obtained access to McVey's defense attorney's files and discovered over 20 FBI witness statements placing McVey downtown that morning with another man. A delivery driver saw McVey with someone else at his motel room. Dana Bradley, who survived by being pinned in the rubble, testified at trial that she and her sister watched McVey exit the truck and saw a second man jump out and run off. Yet the prosecution never called any of these witnesses — every single one of them. Instead, the FBI claimed Bradley was traumatized and confused. At a tire shop, Michael Moroski watched McVey jump out of the truck like he was blocking someone else from view, ask for directions, then drive off with the other man still in the cab. McVey bought Cokes and Marlboros at a convenience store, though witnesses said he didn't smoke — suggesting he was buying for someone else.

Elohim City, Informants, and Government Knowledge

Wilburn's investigation pointed to Elohim City, a remote compound on the Oklahoma-Arkansas border, as a hub of activity. An ATF informant named Carol Howe living at the compound had warned her handler as early as December 1994 that three men — including Andreas Strawmeer, a German national — were making surveillance trips to Oklahoma City and Tulsa to target buildings for bombing. McVey called Strawmeer just two minutes after phoning the Ryder company two weeks before the bombing. Yet Strawmeer was never interviewed by the FBI in person. A year after the bombing, after he'd already left the country and returned to Germany, they conducted only a phone interview. Wilburn also discovered that Richard Wayne Snell, a member of a far-right militia group that had planned to bomb the Murrah building a decade earlier in revenge for a 1985 FBI raid, was executed by Arkansas on April 19, 1995 — the exact day of the bombing. Snell watched the Oklahoma City bombing on TV in his cell and smiled. His spiritual advisor was Robert Malar, the head of Elohim City, and he was buried at the compound. All roads, Wilburn says, lead back to Elohim City.

ATF Presence and the Locked Box Mystery

ATF payroll records showed agents were brought into the Murrah building the night before the bombing, though the agency initially denied it. They admitted to running a sting operation but refused to say where. Wilburn theorizes the feds may have had advance warning the building would be bombed, expected it to happen at night when empty, called in a bomb squad for a sweep when nothing happened, then allowed people to return. An even stranger detail: an AP photograph showed ATF agent Luke Fray on the ninth floor holding a small silver lockbox, surrounded by 168 dead below him. When Wilburn asked what was inside, Fray refused to say. A former FBI agent later reported that Fray told him it contained only $150 in his children's savings bonds — raising the question of why he would refuse to answer a grieving grandmother about something so innocuous in the midst of the nation's worst domestic terror attack.

Forgiveness and Unfinished Questions

After 32 years, Wilburn has written three books on the bombing and completed an investigative series. She forgave Timothy McVey and Terry Nichols, a decision she credits with saving her life after watching her husband die of anger and bitterness at age 47. She corresponded with Nichols in prison and even hosted his son Josh, who was bullied at school after the bombing. When asked what she thinks actually happened, Wilburn says she doesn't have the whole truth but believes the government knew of the plot through Carol Howe's warnings, tried to stop it, failed, and has been covering that up ever since. The jury foreman at Nichols' trial acknowledged reasonable doubt — who were the other men at the motel and bomb site? Michael Fortier, who knew the full plot, served only 10 years and lives in witness protection at taxpayer expense. The basic facts, Wilburn says, don't add up to one man and a plan.

Takeaways

  • Examine why prosecutors never called the 20+ FBI witnesses who placed McVey with a second man at the crime scene.
  • Research why Andreas Strawmeer, whom McVey called minutes before renting the truck, was only interviewed by phone a year later after leaving the country.
  • Investigate why fire and federal agencies received advance terror alerts one week before the bombing but issued no public warning.
  • Demand to know why Michael Fortier received such a light sentence and continues to receive witness protection funding despite his guilty knowledge.

Key moments

3:00Fire dispatcher confirms advance terror alert

I'm not going to lie for anyone. We got a memorandum in this office last week to be on high alert for terrorist activity.

16:00ATF informant warned of bombing plan

She warned her handler that beginning in December of 1994, the informant along with two other individuals had taken trips to Oklahoma City and Tulsa to target buildings they planned to blow up.

24:00McVey called Strawmeer after truck rental

Timothy McVey called there two minutes after calling the rider truck rental company... He asked to speak to a fellow by the name of Andre Strawmeer.

40:00Dana Bradley testifies seeing second man

They see the truck drive up. They see McVey get out and they see someone get out of the passenger side and take off running.

54:00FBI investigator on paid leave

I was called off and put on leave with pay. I've been on leave with pay the last 10 years. I don't know anything about these things.

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